What does sovereignty in sex, love, and pregnancy actually look like?
Victoria Redbard is a speaker, author, facilitator, sensualist, and business badass. She founded an internationally renowned sexuality school in 2019 (and sold it in 2023), co-created Enlightenment in the Bedroom across Australia, the USA, the UK, and Ireland, and now pours her magic into harp playing, writing, her sensual product line, Yoni Elixir, and her family.
In this episode, Victoria and I talk about birth, intuition, sexuality during pregnancy, monogamy vs. open relating, finding a life partner, the dangers of the conscious sexuality industry, and the feminine mysteries.
⏱️ Timestamps
00:00:00 – Birth fears, hypnobirthing mantras & trusting the body
00:10:42 – Intuition vs anxiety during pregnancy
00:20:15 – The feminine mysteries & rites of passage
00:32:08 – Meeting her partner, polyamory vs monogamy, and their union
00:43:55 – Conscious conception, wedding rituals & lineage
00:55:12 – Sex during pregnancy & shifting libido
01:05:44 – Relationship structures, truth & nervous system capacity
01:17:20 – The shadows of the conscious sexuality industry
01:28:33 – Sovereignty, spiritual initiation & preparing for birth
YOUTUBE + TRANSCRIPT:
(00:00) You posted something on Instagram last year. I remember screenshotting it and thinking like that just encapsulates how I feel about sexuality. The sex you’re looking for lives in your ability to meet the unknown. Yeah, I think in a way that’s kind of what I’ve been cultivating. Feels to me like that relates so much to pregnancy as well.
(00:19) How have you been navigating fear? I’m pretty much silencing all those voices that you spoke about. How do you differentiate between what is intuition and then what is like a tiny bit of subtle anxiety? If anything, I feel like my oracle and my my knowing has just it’s more online than it’s ever been.
(00:38) I feel very open and just like seeing everything very very clearly. For me, the feminine mysteries is the initiation paths, the rights of passage that we go through as a woman and how they inform us if we are able to lean in and really hear what the initiation is trying to offer us.
(00:56) You and I just been having this great chat around what is this industry in a way? Is it the the degrees that we’ve undertaking? Is it the transformational coaching space? Is it the feminine mysteries which is feels like almost not about sexuality at all to be honest? Feminine mysteries. But the feminine mysteries path has been where I found the most information in a way around sexuality. I mean I met my partner at a sexuality retreat in 2017.
(01:18) He approached me and said, “I find you really intimidating. Can I touch your foot? It was the first interaction I had with him. How did you touch it? Like did you kind of like just strongand it or did you give it a rub? And we just became really good friends and we just realized that yeah, we had something to learn from each other. He really wanted monogamy. I was very polyamorous. We we made love.
(01:34) The voice that came to him was this is the mother of your children. Neither of us had any interest in marriage or babies. When did things shift into the next iteration? It’s been very bizarre and I I I never know what’s coming next is is the answer. All right. Well, I just feel like we should pick up where we left off before I went to the bathroom because that was fun.
(02:08) Um, going in there and seeing all your seeing all your little like hypno birth Oh, yeah. Um, perfect. mantras, I suppose you’d call them. And the one that I really liked was the baby’s the right size for my body, the perfect size for my body. Cuz that has always been my deepest fear with giving birth is that cuz I’m a small person and my my birth was like so traumatic for my mom and she got told by a gyno, an OBGYn, that she had some hip dysplasia. Yeah. I don’t even know if that’s the right word, but some like thing where her pelvis wasn’t the right size and she had no, you know, she was going to
(02:43) it was going to be hard and it was hard. Yeah. And it was hard for her. And so, yeah, I guess I want to start with start with talking about birth because you’re so pregnant right now. And how have you been navigating fear? It’s a good question. Well, I’m pretty much silencing all those voices that you spoke about, you know? Yeah.
(03:06) So, I’m not really doing any I mean I’m the way that I’m approaching it is like if I I’m really tuning in and speaking to the baby and connecting into myself and wondering do I need a scan and questioning every single thing that comes up.
(03:25) I have had I do have midwives and they have suggestions and I have had midwives and that I’ve also let go of because they have very different suggestions and um when I can feel when they ask me if I want you know more bloods or scans or things like this um I’m just tuning in and deciding whether that’s right for me and a lot of the time if I feel like it’s just going to be a lot of noise coming into my space then I’m a no.
(03:44) Um, and if I feel like, oh no, I definitely need a scan now, like something’s come up and I’m feeling it, then I’m going to move towards a scan. And maybe that’s naive, maybe, who knows, but I’m actually okay with um my decision inside of that.
(04:02) Whether that is naive or not, I feel really solid inside of um following this golden thread that I’ve been following because it seems to be taking me exactly where I need to be. Yeah. How do you differentiate between what is intuition and then what is like a tiny bit of subtle anxiety like oh I need to get a scan versus like oh I need to get a scan.
(04:20) Yeah, I haven’t had the anxiety around the scan but yeah sure I do have fears and things like that. Differentiating between the two I guess it’s been an ongoing practice anyway. I’ll probably do that in my life in lots of ways you know so that’s not really any different during pregnancy.
(04:39) And if anything, I feel like my oracle and my my knowing has just like it’s more online than it’s ever been during this especially this last phase of pregnancy. I’m just like I feel like I’m more that than human nowadays, you know? It’s like there’s a lot it’s there’s not a lot of practicality, but I feel very open and just like I’m just seeing everything very very clearly. Do you think that’s cuz you’ve got two consciousnesses now? Maybe. Yeah, I guess so.
(05:02) I mean, my husband’s pretty intuitive as well, so I’m guessing a combination of of that inside is is quite strong. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. You posted something on Instagram like I don’t know would have been last year and and I remember screenshotting it and thinking like that is that that just encapsulates how I feel about sexuality so much.
(05:24) And um I I had to go back through your Instagram to try and find it this morning because I really wanted to bring it up on the pod. And it was the sex you’re looking for lives in your ability to meet the unknown. And I think that feels to me like that relates so much to pregnancy as well and birth because it relates to life.
(05:43) And absolutely. Yeah. I guess I I’m interested to to hear you speak to that some more. Yeah. Yeah. I think in a way that’s kind of what I’ve been cultivating. You know, you and I just been having this great chat of Cam around like what is what is this industry in a way? Is it is it the the degrees that we’ve undertaking? Is it the um transformational coaching space? Is it the feminine mysteries which is it feels like almost not about sexuality at all to be honest? Feminine mysteries. But I guess the feminine mysteries path has been where I found the most
(06:19) data information in a way around the um around sexuality. And just for the people in the podcast, for me the feminine mysteries is the initiation paths, the rights of passage that we go through as a woman and how they inform us if we are able to lean in and really hear what what the initiation is trying to offer us. And I think that’s what what pregnancy has been like for me.
(06:43) That’s what sexuality has been like for me. And the more I’ve been able to just listen to the unique print that’s come through for me to initiate through and and be able to relate to that, that has been the most powerful way that I feel like I’ve um being able to meet the unknown, to meet fear, to meet intuition, to trust all those pieces.
(07:09) Um and it almost feels like with every initiation I go through whether it is bad relationships or marriage was powerful getting married was a very powerful initiation for me getting pregnant was a really powerful initiation. um now like coming towards this bridge of birth, you know, it’s like all of all of these moments um I can feel that they’re making me who I am as a woman and and yeah and even like the sex like the sex that I do have with my partner and the way that we do choose to relate all of it is yeah just forcing more and more truth to come through and and and it’s and there’s like a muscle that I feel is built inside of that when we learn to relate to ourselves in
(07:46) those ways. M okay. So, there’s two things I want to double click on. The first one is how sex has changed for you since becoming pregnant. And I have to say the second one out loud because otherwise I’ll forget it. And it is the second one was Oh, yeah. I’m interested to know since we’re talking about rights of passage, what was the initiation before falling pregnant? Like what was the thing that happened that you think prepared you for pregnancy? So, answer those in any order you feel fit. Okay. You’re going to have to remind me then cuz I’m pregnant right now. I’ll remind I’ll go for the one first.
(08:22) We have them on tape now. So great. Um so I mean the second one, how did I like know um and like prepare for pregnancy? Well, yeah. What was the Cuz I think this this is my um view on it is that the rights of passages of women, the mysteries of of femininity or what do you call it before? Yeah. Feminine mysteries.
(08:40) Yeah. The feminine mysteries. I feel like they kind of progress in an order. Yeah. Um mother crone. Yeah. in a way and then there’s the kind of like sub ones within that and and I think that you yeah you maybe the order isn’t like super linear but they are happening in succession for a purpose and so the question was before you found out you were pregnant and you’re like this is the next big initiation into the mystery what what was the transformation before that like what was the hard sticky growth spurt before you found out you were going to become a
(09:16) Well, the wedding for one and also just even the fact that I I didn’t want to have a baby like I felt that that even and I never wanted to get married. So, let’s just reverse a little bit when I met my um I mean I met my partner at a sexuality retreat in 2017 and we were friends. We be we we didn’t even become friends on that retreat actually. He approached me and said, “I find you really intimidating.
(09:40) Can I touch your foot?” And I was like, “You’re a bit weird. That was the first interaction I had with him. Yeah. So then I let him touch my foot and then we carried on and I never spoke to him for the whole retreat after. How did he touch it? Like did he kind of like just strong hand it or did you give it a rub? Either of that.
(09:58) He just placed his hand on me and just um Yeah. Just like he was like almost in meditation, you know? We were sitting with a group of people. It wasn’t just him and I, you know. Yeah. So it was a very like passing weird experience on that retreat that was just happening.
(10:14) And then um yeah, fast forward from that we became I wanted to do some public speaking because my career was taking off and uh I just put it on Facebook like who does this and then he came into my sphere and I was like wanting to learn from him. Oh, so he your partner actually teaches people how to public speak. Public speak. Oh my god.
(10:31) If he listens to this podcast, I hope he thinks I’m good at it. And um yeah, so he came into my world in that way and I ended up organizing workshops for him and things like that. And um the mouth and the yoni very connected. Exactly. And we just became really good friends and we just realized that yeah we had you know we had something to learn from each other.
(10:49) Um we were friends for years. He came up here and then he came for a weekend. I was going to move into this house on my own and he came up for that weekend. That was during co and I was like you should stay. After I was like this is great. We we made love and I and the voice that came to him during the love making was uh this is the mother of your children. Oh wow. The first time we made love, right? Oh wow.
(11:16) Bear in mind neither of we we were friends. We didn’t want to be together. Like it wasn’t our plan. We were friends that wanted to make love. And we were also had neither of us had any interest in marriage or babies. Wow. Yeah.
(11:35) I can kind semi-relate to that in a way because when I first made love to my partner I was like he I’m marrying this guy but I also have a history of like fantasy that has you know I’ve also made many a mistake in that theme. So yeah. Okay. You you made love as friends. It quickly I’m guessing turned. Um yeah, I mean we were both and then the other layer of that is that you know he was from he really wanted monogamy.
(11:53) I was very polyamorous. So even when he came up here even though we thought oh there’s a vibe you know but it wasn’t like um he was like well we’re never going to be together because we have very different ideas of what a relationship should look like.
(12:09) So the process, the initiation, just to answer your question of like how did that transformation unravel was a big process of opening to something that was greater than us. And it felt like what pulled us together and even like the alchemy that had to happen between these two lifestyle choices of monogamy and polyamory and where that’s landed us and being able to work with the technology of both those and in a way and really listen to the truth as it was coming through and uh even like the fact of like wherever that voice came from of him going okay this is the mother of your children even though he didn’t want children. All of that became we just
(12:44) started to realize that was more powerful than us and it was like it was like a bit of a tussle in the beginning like oh I don’t want to compromise for you you know and such an identity hanging on for both of us and then realizing we weren’t actually compromising for each other we were actually both like in prayer to this thing that had pulled us together and and once we like realized that we were like oh it’s we’re actually not really compromising we’re kind of just handing over to this divine thread this union, this energy that’s like bigger
(13:15) than both of us. Um, and I guess we need to be humbled and listen to that. And then the unraveling of that was recognizing that we needed to we started to be like, “Oh god, I think we might need to get married. You know, there’s a there’s a commitment here that needs to be honored.” And neither of us really like had a vision of that.
(13:35) And then once it started to land, it was like, “Okay, there’s there’s big pieces that want to move here.” and we’ve just had to like really just keep handing over and and following that thread. And that’s almost I I suppose the underlying value that we both had before this was the spiritual path of whatever that meant to both of us. Yeah.
(13:54) Yeah. Surrendering to whatever life wants me next. Yeah. Exactly. That piece. So I think that has been the the value that’s sort of driven the the relationship and driven those those moments that have had me go okay. And the same thing happened with the baby. Yes. he heard it back then.
(14:12) I was like, I don’t want a baby, you know, but that’s why I didn’t get that voice, you know what I mean? Um, but then, you know, like something just started to shift. I was like, I started to change and I started to I mean, obviously I also turned 30, so we can also talk about biology inside of that. Um, I’m 34 next week on Monday. Oh, yeah.
(14:31) So, I guess like I’m in that, you know, I’m in that I’m in that biological moment as well. So, what star sign does that make? An Aries. Oh, yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah. So, the Aries, is that an is that a air sign or a water sign? Fire sign. It’s a Okay, never mind. We’re not going to talk about star signs cuz I have no idea clearly, but yeah. So, okay.
(14:49) What was it like letting go of the identity that was used to having multiple partners? Yeah. Yeah. Um, it’s been very curious. I I I just feel like I have no idea now. Like I I’m just not even in a relationship to any of it. And even like pregnancy for us, we were just like, okay, this just like an obvious time that monogy will be monogamy will be happening.
(15:14) And um yeah, and then also being humbled by that and being like actually is that even true? Cuz when things have come through and like connections have come through, we’ve really had to one look at the connection also one look at like what is being called from us inside of our relationship, inside of what my body needs, inside of how my body is wanting to open and things like that. So there’s been like it’s been a madness.
(15:33) Yeah. So yeah, I mean we’re not monogamous now. We’re not and we’re also not polyamorous or either really. I’d say we’re like monogamousish. Um but we’re still open. And I thought we would be closed during pregnancy and we haven’t been.
(15:49) So yeah, it’s been very bizarre and I I I never know what’s coming next is is the answer. Oh my god. Okay. So all right, let’s go. So you you you decide that you want to be together. You’re like, I’m Polly. He’s like, I want men. Where do you come to an agreement initially? This is like just at the very beginning.
(16:14) Like where do you come to an agreement of what’s right in that first? Um we don’t Oh, actually, you know what we did do? So I noticed for him there was it was like anyone can be open relating, right? When they’re the one open relating. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s easy to be the person that goes and has an experience. Okay. Big time.
(16:33) The challenging part of open relating is being on when the shoe is on the other foot and your partner is having an experience and you are at home. Okay? Like let’s just be honest. That is 100%. It’s like when you go on an overseas trip and you’re like la it’s so fun and then your partner’s just at home being like [ __ ] you. Yeah. Something like this. And um yeah. So, and I’ve started to realize that like what his nervous system probably required was the experience of being able to expand and have that expans expansive experience with connecting with somebody else and not having to deal with their partner going through that at the same time. You know, it’s
(17:08) like cuz that was what was happening. It’s like the expansion to the contraction was very quick, you know, and this is like very common for human beings in general. Like you can’t like that was a lot for the for his system. And so what I realized was like I was like actually what I would like to do is I’ll be monogamous to you and you can be polyamorous. You said that to him. Yeah. Even though you’re the poly one. Yeah. Wow.
(17:32) cuz I the tables turning because I because my commitment to polyamory was never about my need for connection with other people. It was about a higher value of freedom freedom and also just integrity of truth of like what is really happening in this moment versus paradigm. So I’m not even committed to polyamory, you know what I mean? I’m committed to something else.
(17:56) Um, so yeah, then he went through about we think we did about nine months of him being open and I was closed and just holding space for that and yeah, it was tough as well, you know. Had you ever been in that position of of of like truly on the other side? Not I’d never been closed where someone’s been open.
(18:13) No, I’ve been like I’ve had experience where my partner’s been with someone else and I’ve been at home and not having connections of course, but not like in a very clear this is what we’re doing way. And then eventually, like once that happened and he got a real taste of that and that anchored into his nervous system, I feel like that’s when he he was able to just start to track the truth that I was tracking.
(18:36) And I think he recognized it wasn’t like a wound for me of like I need this freedom and take it at all costs, you know? It was like something else. So it was like I was able to just like show him, I guess, how it was for me and how I feel it in my being. Yeah. And also like what opened for me was like oh the divinity of monogamy. Wow. Like I’d never experienced that before. I’ never consciously chosen monogamy.
(19:00) It was always a paradigm that was conscripted by society you know that I had to be a part of because that’s what everyone does. And I and I just started to get this taste of just like wow this is so powerful to really like just have all my energy. It was like it was like a you know pressure cooker.
(19:18) I was like, “Oh, there’s so much more power and juice just like cooking through the being in that that containment was just beautiful. I loved it. I was like, “Wow, this is so fun to love it.” Cuz I just resented it for so long. I just thought it was such a trap and such a Yeah.
(19:39) I just I felt like it wasn’t serving humanity and I started to really get a taste of how it was serving humanity when it’s done with like such reverence and consciousness. Yeah. and honesty. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Exactly. Totally. When it’s done from a place of choice and not from a place of trauma. I think and I think the same is for polyamory, right? There’s a lot of polyamory gets taken to task for being a excuse for people not to resolve their trauma. And I think in many cases like it can be that. I know.
(20:02) And I say that as somebody who has used open relating as a way to not confront the truth um in relationships and then looked back on it with hindsight and been like that was just actually bad. That wasn’t spiritual. That was bad behavior. So I understand when people make comments about it like that. But yeah, I mean it’s such a it’s so when you really get outside of I guess like what’s been modeled to you and start to see the full spectrum of options, they’re it’s it’s almost like they’re limitless. Mhm.
(20:36) I’m curious to know when now that you’re both starting to see the spectrum because you’ve seen his side of things and you’re like, “Well, monogamy is cool.” And he’s like, “Okay, I can actually hold the this poly thing.” When did things shift back? Like when did things shift into the next I guess their next iteration? Yeah. It’s very blurry. Hey, yeah.
(21:00) Things it’s like it’s I realize that. Yeah. There’s nothing linear of like we did this on this day, you I can’t I can’t give you anything like that. But um I mean it’s ever shifting and ever changing and I think what’s happened now is that we’re mostly touchwood. I haven’t seen us have any kind of nervous system blowouts around either of the polarities, you know? Mhm.
(21:25) And I just think we’re getting good at like saying like tuning into like what is this required? What is required now? What needs to be reassessed now? And so that’s why I always talk about it as like using the technology of open relating and using the technology of monogamy. because I’m because I’m like, okay, we have a we have something up in a relationship. Not even necessarily a problem, but you know, there’s something we’re working with.
(21:43) What is the technology that’s required here and now? That’s kind of the question that I’m asking. Um, so I’m not necessarily that’s why I say we’re not polyamorous or monogous, but we use the technology of of those paradigms to create evolution, to create Yeah.
(22:04) uh to create nourishment, to create um ease, you know, and also I don’t think that either of us are polarized in either of these things as a lifestyle really [ __ ] helps. Yeah, I think I think that would be really powerful for a lot of humanity if we let go of the lifestyle ideas of either of these paradigms. A lot of our community does some of the relating to us and yeah, I mean that must be so liberating.
(22:28) Yeah, I mean my family are aware, but we don’t talk about it. They’re just I mean, it’s mostly monogamy when I’m with my family, you know, as far as like, you know, this is my primary person. So, it’s not like they’re meeting with a bunch of other people. And in saying that, my ex um partner, the partner I was with before my husband, he was a big part of our wedding, was very involved and and obviously knows my parents cuz I was with him for like 5 years.
(22:52) Um and my parents are very accepting of that. you know they still have a lot of love for him and yeah can just see how he is supportive and just completely in utter love and devotion to our union you know we actually oh I don’t have one here but we made these like bardovich coins which was like the surname that we created for our wedding yeah and I actually we gave like five of them to this council of five for the like people that we felt could be holding pillars for this this union that we we’ve created and one of them was actually my ex partner cuz he holds the paradigm, you know.
(23:25) Oh my gosh, this is so expansive for me to even have this conversation with you and even before when we were chatting on the couch about your mother blessing and like how just deeply intentional all of this stuff is. Yeah. Okay.
(23:44) I’m interested to know you you speak about the technology using the technology of different paradigms to meet what is true in the moment. I I want to talk about the wedding initiation cuz you said that was an initi initiation and then I also I want to go into when you fell pregnant meeting the truth that the technology of monogamy monogamy in like the traditional sense was no longer right when the monogamy in the traditional sense was no longer right as you were pregnant but I feel like we should track um for the ease of the listener and my personal brain I feel like we should track chronologically cuz then
(24:14) we’ll also get back to the original question which was sex during pregnancy. So wedding you said big initiation for you. We did a bunch of rituals in lead up to the wedding. One of them was inviting um the law woman of Banjang to this land. We got married on this land that we’re sitting on down there. Yeah. Beautiful. Why why wouldn’t you? It’s Yeah. It’s here for you. Yeah. Exactly.
(24:40) And um we have Mount Wumbin just out the window. So this felt like the perfect place and the whole relationship has been here. Like I said, he came for the weekend and he’s still here 5 years later. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Um so yeah, her her name’s Mami. She came and she offered us a blessing and it was a real meeting of the ancestors.
(25:00) So it was like her ancestors meeting with you know he’s from um Bos he’s born in Bosnia so he’s Serbian. Um so his ancestors coming in and also my Celtic lineage. Mhm. And we’ve done um like a what are those things called? Like when you check your DNA. Oh, the ancestry testing or whatever. Yeah, something in me. Yeah. 23 and me or something.
(25:17) 23 and me. Yeah. So, we did that during co and basically both of us are completely pure blood. Like, so this is the first time that the blood lines would be starting to merge, meshed. Yeah. Exactly. So, it was kind of a big deal for both of us in lots of ways. And we noticed it when we really created the wedding.
(25:34) We were like, “Wow, we have very different cultures and ideas around um how things are.” You know, and a lot of people think that Australian culture and English culture are the same, but being from England, I really don’t feel that. No, I I don’t feel that at all. Yeah. And and like the Celtic thing is very very strong for me, you know, like I’ve been playing the harp.
(25:51) I’ve been really working that line and really like tapping into my matriarchal line and um yeah, so there’s been a lot there. And we started to merge those things together and we sat they landed it with a tree up on the hill here and then brought the name through and like even wrote the name on the tree.
(26:07) Um, the Bardovich. Yeah. Can you explain the name? You’re a Redbard. Victoria Red. Redbard was my name and then Petravich is his name and we wanted to blend those two together and really bring something new because you know it isn’t like u because there is these two lineages and it is these two places and the word bard means storyteller. Yes. I know that from watching The Witcher.
(26:31) Yeah. Cool. And um so yeah, and I think that’s a big part of what we stand for is like the telling of the story and ovich is on the end of all Serbian surnames and Slavic names in general. And it means like children of so children of the story tellers children of the storytellers and I just feel that there’s something I mean I I just get such a feeling whenever I connect into that, you know. So that was one ritual.
(27:03) We also did like a um call it a marriage bonanza which was like a yeah working with us working with the the templates of looking at how you can resolve things through um looking at what happened and that has been a big part of our culture you know so we got our friends together got an Airbnb for the weekend and just like worked with temples worked with if there was conflict if there was things that were coming up if there was stuff that was in the way of us stepping towards the wedding stepping towards the yeah like that that commitment how can it be resolved through like working with the technology of Aeros for me aos is so
(27:34) endless you know it’s the most powerful force in the universe yeah exactly so why were we not using it more and why do we think that we can use so much consciousness and and mental understanding to try to resolve something that is yeah like I think marriage is an initiation I think marriage is not supposed to be easy um just like parenting yeah just like relationships just like relationships exactly And so I’m really interested in how do we work with the technology of AOS to try to bring something through. So that was
(28:04) another ritual we did. Like I mean it was endless, babe. Like we did so much ritual. Yeah. Yeah. On the way through. But all of these sad I didn’t get an image. All of these things that led, you know, to these moments was just like perfect. and and the wedding day like I’m like I just cry every time I look at the photos of the wedding cuz it’s just it was the mo I’m I do actually can consider myself quite shy sometimes like especially around lots of people and I got out of the car on the on my wedding day and you know it was 160 people Slavic families are big
(28:35) yeah okay all right that’s yeah British families are small families are big and um we we came out and and I came out it was like you know a lot of our community as well and I just felt the most amount of ecstasy, the most amount of heart opening was so huge and and I’m changed forever because of that day and because of that ritual and I I can’t fight that and who I’ve become inside of that process and who and then you know the baby we did a conscious conception ritual so we got married in April we did one in May and we had some time apart he was traveling
(29:10) Europe I was also in sexuality retreats in Europe and when we came back together we landed back Yeah, he went to he got told he needed to go to India before by some uh like a like a prophecy came to him that he needed to be in India before the baby came through.
(29:29) He had a reading over there about how Saturn had been holding things in a certain way and it was about to open up in his chart. Anyway, the whole thing was like divinely orchestrated. He landed back here on the Friday. I think we conceived this baby on the Saturday um through, you know, mutual orgasm, through the the power of of all of those things happening at the same time.
(29:50) Mhm. And here we are. And here we are eight months later. Everything has had to happen on this land apparently in front of this mountain. I I actually thought we would get pregnant in Europe. I thought we would get pregnant in Serbia as I felt he wanted that. Um, and then my cycle shifted while we were in Serbia. So when I thought I was ovulating, I wasn’t.
(30:13) And then as soon as he and then I tracked it, I was like, “Oh, next time we see each other, I’m going to be ovulating when you arrive back home.” And so, yeah, it was all like very perfect and like very quick after the after the wedding and after the the conscious conception and then landed at Yeah, it was shocking. Yeah, I you know what I see it happen like that though for couples that really intentionally unfortunately I don’t have a lot of models of this kind of relating um but I do have some and I’m so grateful for the ones that I do have. I have uh two friends who I met when I was
(30:48) living in Bali uh Elijah and Cameron and they have just been so intentional about their union and like the baby just came through. They got pregnant before the wedding even and it was I think it’s that it’s that energy of consciousness when it meets the energy of like love and love from this place of like choice like actual proper sovereignty and inner authority.
(31:13) So it doesn’t surprise me that for you it just like doom. So yeah then how has it been banging while you’ve been pregnant? Sexuality and sex since I’ve been pregnant. Yeah. What’s that been like? next level. Like it’s been really really wild. Um the shifts in my body. So I mean trimester one I would say there was like a real like door mouse moments.
(31:41) Like there was like probably like a month there where I was just like I just want to sleep. I don’t even want to you know it was like really like I was just like curling into like some very quiet place and there was very little sexuality in that time. How did that feel for you? Was that a bit of a like ooh I don’t this is not who I’ve been? No, not really.
(31:58) I think like um yeah, I do have a high libido, but I don’t feel identified with it. So, it’s it wasn’t concerning. So much freedom in your in your like relationship to yourself, Victoria. I mean, I’m sure that there will dig a little deeper. there’s stuff there, you know, just acknowledging like my first meeting of you and you sharing so much about yourself like it really it’s like there is like so much liberation and it’s so inspiring and I’m I’m so happy that like you decided to come on this podcast and we’re having this conversation cuz it’s a transmission. Appreciate that.
(32:27) Yeah. And just also acknowledge you know the human part as well. It’s like it’s been very different experiences of like in a way my libido is already fairly high and this is like taking it to another level. It’s almost like just uncomfortable how much energy and like you know cuz you’re creating Yeah. Exactly.
(32:51) And it and and it’s also shifted, you know, I was like I usually experience a lot of sexuality through my yoni. And now it’s like just all through the breasts, all through the the womb, you know, it’s just like where the points are, you know, like where everything’s growing and expanding is where I’m experiencing a lot of sexual energy. And um yeah, my partner’s been very unwell and he’s also been working away a lot.
(33:09) And there’s been a lot of just like this capacity to like whoa, I got to meet all this energy on my own and just like really like just diving back into myself over and over and that being quite uncomfortable, you know, just like really having to be with myself in those ways, you know, uncomfortable, the mechanics of it are uncomfortable because your body’s changing or what do you mean when you say uncomfortable? just like the power and like the intensity of libido and energy that I’m having to be with alone, you know, and I feel like it’s the perfect initiation for birth, I imagine.
(33:47) You know what I mean? Just like, wo, we’re going to meet all of this intensity just through this body. Yeah. Yeah. Feels like the body is like too small to contain all the the power and the energy and the the bigness of the arousal and the libido and everything, you know.
(34:07) It’s like just feel like I’ve been pulsing, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And it’s strong. It’s really strong medicine, you know. Like I mean, maybe it’s someone can relate to it through like a psychedelic experience. It’s like that the energy of when psychedelics are like nauseiating cuz they’re so so strong. Mhm. That’s what it’s felt like sometimes.
(34:26) So, it’s not been comfortable and it’s not been pretty and I feel like I’ve I felt like grotesque in that, you know, and there was like phases as well where I’ve been like, “Wo, my body’s changing. I don’t even, you know, don’t even know this body anymore and and I have had a huge breakthrough with that actually, like around like body image.
(34:42) “ Um, you know, which has been and I just love it now. But there was a phase there like I I don’t know it must have been in trimester 2 or something where it was just like very surprising to me like feeling like okay is this you know am I am I attractive to my partner all those questions like all of the humanity that comes with being a woman. Yeah.
(35:07) you know, and um and yeah, like I said, like he’s been very busy and he’s been working a lot, you know, he’s in his own fatherhood initiation of providing and and he’s been incredible, like so incredible. And also like we’re just in very different poles. You know, the polarity of where we’ve been and you know, when we’re both doing entrepreneurship and we’re both in the world and we’re both, you know, trying to smash goals and like it’s very different energetic to be making love from that place versus when someone is like descending into the, you know, into the depth of
(35:39) the feminine and someone’s out there like crushing it and doing lots in the world. and the stress that comes with doing that and the stress of want needing to expand that part of himself to be able to hold me to be able to hold the baby to be able to hold what our family is you know so it’s a lot a lot yeah yeah it’s everything it’s about the most everything it’s and I would not change it for the world and we’ve had an incredible initiation and um you know and it’s not even begun well I mean it has though like you know this is this is it beginning. Um, another one of the amazing mantras in
(36:15) your toilet before was um, I can handle these contractions or I can meet the contractions cuz I am the contractions. And I loved that because I think that that’s like life, you know, is is things come your way. So much is coming your way for me and I don’t have as much coming my way as as you do right now.
(36:35) Um, but I that that mantra of just like it’s coming my way cuz I can handle it, you know? I if I can open to it, I want to come back to the technology of monogamy no longer serving in pregnancy because that feels juicy and I want to hear more about that. When did you start to feel like that wasn’t true and then how did you navigate doing something different, shifting into something different? Um I mean it’s so I’m trying to pinpoint like a story or something. Do you know what I mean? Um, I mean, maybe it doesn’t even have to be the when. It’s just like I’m guessing
(37:15) that it it ar it arose. You spoke to it and then how do you get to the Cuz like that’s so taboo. Is it? I think so. Yeah. Not in like maybe there wasn’t as much resistance as I’m envisioning there was as I place myself in your shoes, right? Yeah. Yeah. There wasn’t there there wasn’t like big moments. there wasn’t um big conversations, you know, it wasn’t like a big drama.
(37:40) Like it wasn’t wasn’t a thing really. It’s just like I guess again I’m trying to pinpoint a story. It’s like and also like what defines outside of monogamy as well is very blurry for me nowadays. Yeah. Um but yeah, I guess it’s been a process of just like the difference in needs, the difference in what is required, you know, like the big need that um my partner’s been through during this process is needing a lot of time alone, which has actually been the edgiest part for me because I feel like okay, but I need you close now because there’s like I’m like
(38:17) disintegrating into a whole different version of me. Um so that belt has been very hard for me and also shocking to me. That’s hard for me because probably do respon relate to being more of an independent woman da da da da da da da da da da d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d and I like I’m not feeling that anymore. I feel very very different when I’m pregnant. So that’s been very challenging.
(38:36) And then for me it’s been like okay um wanting to do things like doing stretching of the paranneeium which is a thing that we do to prepare for birth, prepare to open. Yeah, exactly. So like working with different dhers and things like that like people in the sexuality space that can help me with that. And then also just like having beautiful connections with people like I I met somebody new um had a beautiful connection with them.
(39:01) They ended up actually my friend was really really on the edge and like quite depressed and really struggling. And I only met this person once and had a beautiful connection with them. You could call it a date for the sakes of for a podcast if we like but yeah and then they actually like went came and was like actually you know I’d love to support your friend if they need anything you know.
(39:19) So it was just like this feeling of like the people that you meet when you’re holding this particular frequency of people are beautiful and powerful souls and you can share sexual experiences with them and that’s not that doesn’t mean something else. You know what I mean? is mind-blowing to me cuz it’s like the that this person come into my life and was like doesn’t know me from Adam came into came into this experience attracted them somehow and then um they were not perturbed by the fact that I was pregnant you know cuz they were able to hold a very open expansive conversation and then were
(39:52) really open to holding space for a friend and just like that they don’t even know this was like one of my friends we didn’t even stay in contact either by the way this was not like oh we became best buddies after this it’s like we didn’t speak for age. They asked me how it was. I said, “I’m okay. I’m supporting my friend.
(40:10) “ Um, and he was like, “Okay, can I also support you? Can I also support your friend? If you if they need anything, let me know. I can maybe, you know, do some breath work with them or sit with them.” Did you share the part of the experience of the friend that you were supporting with this other person so that they didn’t actually need to know too much? They were just like available, you know? M there was just a sense of I I can’t even explain to you like the reverence and love that I experience from people. It like it still blows me away, you know.
(40:40) Yeah. And and then also what blows me away is when I come into contact with with the rest of the world that you’re speaking to. That also blows me away cuz I’m so not used to that. Well, that’s what I’m getting at here is like it it just Oh, I guess I’m like my mind is being like even just open to having this conversation and I consider myself to be quite liberal and there’s there’s obviously a few more runs on the ladder I can climb.
(41:05) I’m also like cool with that cuz it’s a long life. But cuz some of your views I I suppose would be to others like radical. Okay. And for you, they’re so normal, but for other people, like I can imagine that they’re very like, oh, people meet their edge when they hear your story, which is like such a beautiful offering to the world.
(41:30) And I wonder how and maybe because you have such a tight-knit community here, those moments of judgment only appear online when you’re more accessible to to you’re more accessible when you’re online. But like how do you how have you worked through any kind of fear and and judgment projected on you? Yeah.
(41:48) I mean also I I can you know I am being very candid about the experiences I’ve had even on this podcast and there’s a reason for that. It’s like one, it’s my sacred business for for one, and I feel like I don’t like it when things get put into very crass language cuz I feel that there’s it it’s can it’s like like the energy and the the reverence and the honoring of what is uh just gets messy and it’s like language it cannot express. Yeah.
(42:18) you know, and like where and like sharing sexuality with somebody, it can be so many different things and it can be and I would and the challenge is as well like with people that would have very conservative views around these pieces around pregnancy and sharing sexuality and different things like that. I probably agree with them, you know, like I have similar feelings around like like there is a certain amount of containment that I will hold around my sexuality even when sharing it with others.
(42:43) M okay. You know, and that’s just my truth and and to get into nitty-gritty of I would do this, I wouldn’t do that. It’s not where it lives for me. So, it’s very hard for me to communicate it into words on a podcast. Totally. I think this it’s this is the hard thing.
(43:00) It’s been the hard thing with the podcast and it’s also been it’s a hard thing about life in general when you engage with when you accept that reality is far more complex than the interface that we can see. Yeah. is that spiritual states like the one you’re in in pregnancy and like the ones that we get into in sexuality and like the ones that we when we’re in deep meditation and like in deep contact with our self and our truth that those states are spiritual and they’re really [ __ ] hard to like talk about and that almost like keeps them but that’s good I think.
(43:30) Yeah. So I mean this is yeah it’s a good conversation. And I like where you’re taking this as well because it’s something I thought about a lot and I used to be very expressed and very crass in my the way that I would speak about these things and I was very available for the projection field that came with that. What do you mean by crass? Just like straight up this is this is penetration.
(43:49) This is you know this is what this person did with this person and yeah like that level of like expressed exposure and this is what’s going on in my sex life. You know like that level. I used to do a lot of that and I had a lot of shock value.
(44:07) Probably developed a big following through that, you know, in a way because it wasn’t wasn’t really done at the time, you know, that version of you is like has also helped. Yeah. And where I’m at with it now is like certain things belonging behind the veil. And it’s not and it’s actually like what I’ve realized is that a lot of people can feel it through me and who I am as a woman. And don’t you don’t need to know every single detail of what and also there’s probably a level of grace and maturity and all those things that come with it.
(44:33) But yeah, there’s a certain um I feel like there’s an embodiment of people and I and I that’s why I feel like I attract them, you know, like I feel like they come into my life because of how I hold this stuff. I don’t I don’t need to have big conversations with people usually or explain myself a lot because the resonance speaks for itself and where I’ve been in my life creates something like that.
(44:57) And this whole veil piece I’ve, you know, there’s a lot on social media right now of like all the transformational retreats and stuff that you and I chat about. Putting all of it online, you know, in a real and creating it into a very small snippet, 30 seconds. Yeah. Exactly. 15 if you’re on TikTok. Yeah. Exactly. That’s that stuff.
(45:14) And it looks like insanity and and it’s catharsis and it’s important and it needs to be witnessed because that’s what initiation is. And I’ve really been sitting with the sacredness of the of what needs to be witnessed and when because when it is put on social media in that way, there is a certain amount of um people that are going to be blocked then from ever stepping into those spaces because of how it is being vulgarly expressed, diluted or like um condensed. Yes. All of that compacted. Like when you send a really high res photo over text message,
(45:47) it’s like, “No, you need to email me that [ __ ] or airdrop it or airdrop it.” Yeah. And then there’s something that can happen when you you can really like transmit a moment in time that is held in a certain container. And this is really what I was creating with Sex Lab as well.
(46:03) So this social experiment which is not really a workshop it’s more like a social experiment is a space for all of those things to come alive and to be um expressed just the the momentary this is who I am in this second you know I am an angry woman in this moment you know it doesn’t mean if you see that on then Tik Tok then you’re going to be like well this woman’s crazy because you’re seeing one aspect of my archetypal makeup right yeah your complexity exactly but it’s it’s not it’s not a full picture and it’s also taking something completely out of context and making something it’s not, you know, and I and I don’t know how I feel about some
(46:35) of these mysteries, some of these initiation paths, some of these witnessing moments being seen on TikTok. I don’t know. It’s not like there’s a right or wrong and I’m not here to police it, but I don’t know that it’s serving the greatest there’s there’s I I really feel the power in expression and how the importance of that.
(46:58) But the evolutionary um pull I think is very different you know and I’ve noticed that like I don’t need to do a lot of marketing in my work often like I’ve been so busy through pregnancy I’ve done no marketing and um just with my work even as a business coach because of the the energetic that I put out to the world and it’s not through all the podcasting I do or anything you know it’s like it’s just because of when people meet me they they’re getting and understanding and they’re getting something. They’re feeling all those places I’ve been even if they don’t know my story
(47:30) and I think that I’ve become much more interested in that and I’ve started to trust the veils and the what happens behind the veils more and more. Yeah. Because of that. Yeah. Yeah. I fully I have also been rattling this round in my brain as well when it comes to this project because this project holds so much meaning for me. Yeah.
(47:53) And I want to on my gravestone, let it be known, I want on my gravestone it to say she facilitated really great conversations and then I want to be on my deathbed dying holding my partner’s hand cuz that’s how I want to die. And I want to be like haha the best conversations I had were not the ones on record because I believe the same thing.
(48:12) But then when it comes to getting like this conversation for example, like the transmissions and the permissions and like all the cool stuff that you said this far, I’m like, I want to get that out there. I want to get that out there. I want people to hear what you have to say so they’re like my mind is bending and expanding and like maybe I can just do whatever the [ __ ] I want too.
(48:29) And so it’s like how do you how do you like walk that line? How do you accept and then like come into approval for that tension and then also figure out how to create more ease around it? Yeah, it’s a resonance thing. Like everyone listening to your podcast is not going to be in resonance with what I’m sharing.
(48:51) So giving them access to too much is not actually going to be in benefit for them. Yeah. It’s not helpful. It’s not like it’s not going to help them on their journey. It’s going to polarize them against certain paradigms, certain ideas which is not necessarily useful for them. And what I find is is that when people come into resonance with me and maybe they come to a workshop or they come to a social experiment or they come to uh do mentoring with me or they come to a different stage of resonating, they’re they are able to um receive a lot more. M and this is why I feel like the mentoring I do inside of business is incredibly powerful for most people that
(49:25) I work with. Um because of that, because of the the and the places that we go because of the the capacity which they’re willing to step in has been phenomenal. And I love working with people like that because they’re they’re available and they they they they know what they wanting to come for or they’re getting pulled in for by something and they’re listening to that current.
(49:58) And for me like offering them everything the way that I do mentoring is very much like trying to get beyond um the paradigms of exchange money for time d like I don’t do anything like that. I do it very relational and I usually part of the part of the transformation is breaking people out of time for money and into this like complete like abundance mindset of mindset’s a funny word abundance embodied experience of business and how things can come to you cuz like I said I haven’t done marketing during pregnancy and I’m experiencing a lot of abundance and I’m experiencing a lot coming to me because of this way of being Yeah.
(50:33) Yeah. Yeah. I mean I so um want to believe I choose no I choose to believe I choose to believe that the game is really the inner work is like is the resonance the frequency stuff and not like the the external grappling for the external stuff. And I think that yeah you you you also just attract like you said the people that are ready to show up for what you have. Yes. You have to say and it’s interesting.
(50:59) This is so interesting because before we turned the mics on, we were you were on the couch and I was setting up and you were asking me about my my degree and like was it helpful having a masters of sexology to attract people for onetoone work? And the answer was yes, it was to have the cosign of the university on my resume and like you know I’ve done a bunch of other academic things and it looks good for a certain type of person seeking help.
(51:24) And then I also found that I was attracting clients who didn’t want to hear what I had to say who really like it was there was some challenging times there that potentially were you know there was a rightness to that because it took me away from the onetoone sexuality work and now has put me in the field here where I feel more comfortable. I’m like got my own talk show blah blah blah. Anyway, but like yeah I was I was not it wasn’t easy.
(51:49) It didn’t feel easy. People didn’t want to hear what I had to say. they wanted like to come to me for a certain like for a validation that I didn’t feel it didn’t feel true for me to give them me challenging them felt like too much of a threat that relationships just discontinued and I think that yeah it’s that frequency piece absolutely because I have had a very different experience you know like and also and similar like when I just did counseling and I put myself out there in a very mainstream counseling way um more for
(52:21) the degree agree. You have to do that as part of it. I wasn’t finding people sticking around. And then since I put myself out there as who I am, people can find me on Psychology Today. They can find me through good therapists, all these different things, like places that are very mainstream.
(52:39) They can also find me through my social accounts and all the ways I express myself. Those people are the ones that are my long-term clients because they have been pulled in through resonance. That’s like I think that is like you know that’s a mic drop thing. Yeah. And I and I would love to see more of the world living inside of that.
(52:58) Like you I feel like part of your podcast and the reason you’re doing this is to get people more into their resonance that they truly are. I think it’s to get me into my resonance, right? Yeah. I I think that it’s I and I have to follow that. I have to be like I’m asking the questions that I want to know.
(53:16) M and I get caught up being like, you know, I get caught up being like, I should ask this question cuz audience might want to know this when I’m like, “No, I don’t want to know that. I want to know something else.” Yeah. Cool. And all I can do is like do that and then put it out there and see what happens. I’m interested to know though with the business mentoring that you do because you also have this um sexuality facilitator avatar.
(53:40) Do those things when you’re working with women tend to very much overlap like a woman’s I suppose just I’m thinking about it through the perspective of a woman’s ability to receive. Yeah. Um I do a lot of like women that are sex workers that want to actually step out of the sexworking space and into a different style of business. So yeah, there’s a crossover there.
(53:57) And also yeah like I mean cuz I’ve got such a wide variety of places that I work with. So I do, you know, I can do like an element of sales and marketing and teaching things around that and with OOS because I can’t do it without. Yeah. So I do it with it’s your tool. That’s my tool. And then I’m also teaching your wand.
(54:21) Yeah. And how to do some of the deeper healing stuff that I do around at the same time. So there’s a lot of like priestess training, teeny work that I help women develop. So this also because I’ve developed my own modality as well.
(54:37) So I’m often helping people create their own modalities and bring their stuff together so that they can actually birth what they came to birth in the world and yeah breaking through a lot of those paradigms cuz I went through all of them as as far as you and I the conversation around academia and I was doing my degree at the time whilst creating my modality whilst bringing to the world whilst getting qualification global accredititation with a few different bodies you know so I was really like being initiated very hardcore inside of what does it mean to be a governing body and what is the purpose of a governing body and how does a
(55:10) governing body help us in our world and create bridges cuz I feel like governing bodies I like the idea of them and I think that they are there to build bridges when you say governing bodies what are you referring to exactly um university would be a governing body yeah um an accredititation body would be like SSEA which is going to test me now sexological uh Association of Psychological Educators or something. Yeah. Australasia, some words like that. Oh, yep. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. So, there’s one of those and then there’s another
(55:40) one um the ICCT which is about complimentary therapies. So, there’s all these different governing bodies that hold more accreditation above what it is you’re creating. So, I created a modality which is not as powerful in the world as a university degree, you know, and I honor that. And something that you know you and I have chatted about is like is there in a way sometimes what can happen and what I can create inside of that I’ve had people say that to me like what I got from your course 9 month course is more than I got
(56:12) in four or five years of university you know. Yeah. But it’s like it’s your body of wis it’s it’s your body of embodied wisdom and it’s so specific and when it hits with someone and those specificities all resonate on their little levels like it of course it’s more powerful than a university degree that’s based on cuz this was sometimes my gripe with uni is that we were reading a lot of peer-reviewed articles and they’re basically experiments done on other um on the other you’re getting like samples
(56:42) of of of people and trying to interpret using data these experiences whereas like what about your experience and like how does you know that that was how the modality came about for me cuz I just sat with so many people through this self-pleasure thing that I created that I was like oh this like I’ve kind of got my own relationship to this data that’s actually in front of me it’s singing you know it’s humming so that was something and I also another layer of that is like accrediting bodies and all those pieces and also return on investment you know I’ve done a degree I didn’t I’m from England so I did my
(57:20) degree as an international student so it was like I think I must have paid about 70k for it oh my god up front no this was like term by term and also the visa at the same time so it was more you know this 100k degree easily have I seen a return on investment just as a counselor not a [ __ ] chance have I seen a like a return on investment on the work that I’ve put out there from my own channel we could say.
(57:45) Yeah. Your own experiences. Absolutely. Like like the the time and the energy and the initiation and the woman that I am today and the business woman that I am today like the return on investment financially energetically all those things this you know even the status that comes with that which is a part of it like the reason we get degrees is because we want a certain amount of acknowledgement for what we have done.
(58:11) M I can’t say that getting the degree gave me the status that I yearned for inside of the knowledge that I have, you know. It’s like there was there’s a certain amount of knowledge that I’ve have from seeing everything I’ve seen that doesn’t cut it, you know, and actually being able to put my work out there and walking, you know, burning through the fires of accreditation cuz it wasn’t it’s not easy getting accredit accredited like especially global accredititations. They want so much from you and they want updates all the time and they want diversity and they want to
(58:41) know what you’re going to do if this person comes in. There’s a lot that these accrediting bodies want and actually that made me feel like you know what I owe my stripes. Yeah. And that gave me the status to feel confident as a woman in the world putting a certain body of work in the world.
(59:01) So I got that was a huge initiation of understanding what do all these things give us, you know? Yeah. the nuance and like the balance of it all and what’s like painting painting the picture with your very unique balance of like little bit of academia a little bit of peer reviewed a little bit of life experience is my wisdom trust me because I lived it. Yeah.
(59:19) Yeah. And I mean one of my next steps that I feel when I’m done with this initiation or not done but when I’m feeling more comfortable with this initiation and through the the challenging uh stages of young young children. Something I am considering is like what does it look like to have peer-reviewed stuff around the transformational work that I have done and the social experiments that I run the sex lab thing that I’ve created as a social experiment people have come and said like you know they’ve done all the temples they’ve done all the transformational work I’ve had like most of the people that come to the lab are um people that have been in
(59:50) the work for 20 years so it’s kind of and and they even they all say like you know something that I’ve have been tracking for 10 20 years has only just landed for me being in this space you know so that is exciting to me that’s what I live for innovation and the next steps and I would love to see I think that will be the next phase actually you and I obviously share a very strong bond over this this nuance between transformational worlds and academia and the safety that the the evidence-based stuff brings
(1:00:20) evidence-based stuff yeah and I think that what’s going to happen because we’ve just seen so many modalities come out in so many schools on so many things now big time. Um I think the next phase is going to be that would be my prediction is that we’re going to start to get some evidence-based stuff around the transformational work. I really hope so.
(1:00:39) I and I think with AI as well and the capacity that we’ll have to expedite work and like just comp like yeah everything’s going to change. I think universities are about to meet their own initiation with how artificial intelligence and learning is, sorry, artificial intelligence is going to change education. And I I hope that like what you’re saying is true.
(1:01:05) And I hope that by the time you’re ready to do that, I’m doing a PhD and we can collab. I would love that. I do want to talk about sex lab though cuz we’ve kind of alluded to it enough in this pod. Are you good to keep going? Keep going. Okay. Cool. Cool. Cool. So, um, talk me through what like what a sex lab is like how cuz it’s a social experiment.
(1:01:25) It’s a blend of all your modalities, but like what happens when someone comes to a sex lab? Yeah. So, it’s always a group and really the what it is is not a formula and it’s not a modality. It is a invitation and it has pillars and those pillars are to let go of ideas around consent to let through the instinct and another pillar would be um letting go of rules.
(1:02:02) So there’s no rules in the space but when what we replace the rules with is the pillar of um human decency and then the way that we police human decency is to invite that human decency to be um held by not just me as the facilitator but by the entire group and that’s community approach a community approach um which is something that I’m very passionate about after the entire initiations of everything we just spoke about and Then there’s, you know, there’s some other rules in there.
(1:02:34) Just like the really the this the intention for me is to sharpen the instinct. I feel like there’s a lot of moments in the world where we see things that are wrong, that upset us, that feel bad, that feel completely inhumane and we’re completely powerless to them. And I would like to see more of humanity, humans meeting life with a sharper instinct.
(1:03:02) And I believe if we moved with that sharp instinct, if we trusted our instinct, then we could have the relationships that we want. You know, we don’t have to be so much in a worry of are we monogous, are we polyamorous, and dusting our instinct and we’re not actually um defending our instinct to our partner either.
(1:03:21) because our partner can trust our instinct because it’s sharp, because it’s not convoluted with ego and it’s not um you know it’s not messy. So I mean I’ve just diverged a bit there but there’s a lot of pillars that I’ve created and a lot of them around that is one of the pillars is also like um to meet with instinct instead of any modalities or ideas of how we can help people and sometimes people come into the the space with something that is stuck or challenging or whatever and the group is invited into helping in in any way that they see
(1:03:56) is actually their instinct you know so there’s a difference in them coming in and be like, “Okay, I’m a healer and I I know how to do light language and I know how to move this piece over here or I can, you know, I can uh change your pelvis to make something happen.” Nothing like that exists in sex lab.
(1:04:15) What does exist is like a very very deep curiosity of what comes through. Sometimes it looks very um orgy vibes, you know, like there’s a lot of sexual energy moving. Um and other times it looks very like shamanic and healing. Other times it’s very quiet and a bit boring. And that’s the thing about emergent fields, you know, it’s not it’s not a show. That’s another one of the pillars.
(1:04:38) It’s not about performance. It’s actually around like coming into state. So we really invite people to not come in and tell a big story about what’s broken or what’s not working because another one of the pillars as well, they’re all interlink is that we’re not there to fix an individual need.
(1:04:55) Something I actually heard on that Emerald podcast um which is all around like basically the the tribe coming together. So they don’t have a problem that in the in these ancient times they would just drum and the energies would move through. Right. That was well that’s what they do when they do peyote. It’s like up all night listening to drums and the cactus spirit moves the energies. You don’t have to be like well when I was seven. Yeah. None of that happens at six.
(1:05:17) So it is shamanic in that way. Yeah. Yeah. and and it is like and I have seen singing and I have seen drumming and I have seen energies moving and things like that and archetypes expressing themselves and things like that but it’s very much like getting into state and expressing from what is alive in this moment versus telling us a story of your childhood or what’s going on in your relationship or anything like that it’s very emergent and it’s very alive um so it usually isn’t boring but sometimes it is you know sometimes it’s just like the life force is quiet and
(1:05:47) it’s subtle and it’s barely moving And not everybody that comes has a full access to their os and that feeling inside of themselves. And when that comes up that is like a journey of like can the group um invoke more of their their ears inside of themselves to see if we can bring more life in, you know, and so that that’s the way that I’m facilitating it.
(1:06:14) I’m looking at like, okay, are we touching OS’s medicine right now or is it just are we are we in some sort of pretend? Are we touching touching life? Are we touching are we getting connected to our instinct? Sometime I just bring that question in. Yeah. Is that I was going to ask like so you as the facilitator what’s your role? Yeah.
(1:06:38) My role is to invite to make invitation Yeah. And speak to what you feel to be a member of the community for one and to so part of that is speaking to what I feel but everybody’s invited into that you know like I’m not holding an authority over anyone that I know better than anyone but I am holding um I’m holding what sex lab is.
(1:07:01) So there is a there is a containment to this is sex lab and this is an orgy or this is sex lab and this is a temple or this is sex lab and this is a healing circle now. So for me there is like when I it doesn’t matter which direction it starts to skew away from if I don’t feel like we’re holding the pillars of sex lab.
(1:07:19) If I feel like there is patterns playing out and sometimes those patterns are just people thinking they just came here to get it on, you know, and it’s not that like and if I feel that’s moving then I will call it, you know, and and the invitation is that it’s not just me calling it, you know, I’m not there policing.
(1:07:36) It’s like we call it because that’s human decency. That’s holding ourselves to actual instinct. Cuz how quickly does sex in any relationship in any experience go from something that is the pulse of life moving through us and moving towards more life to a pattern that is unconscious that is just creating more of the same thing.
(1:07:55) And I believe the purpose of OOS and sexuality is evolution huge. So what some one of the main invitations I offer is like where is the evolutionary edge right now? That’s like the main question that I often seed into the space because it helps people get connected. How? And then there’s, you know, there’s discussion. There’s space for that. It’s not like just emergent space go home.
(1:08:18) You know, there’s like space for the unfolding and space for uncomfortable conversations, which hasn’t happened a lot yet. If people’s boundaries were crossed because there’s no consent and there’s not rules either, you know, like we welcome that. That’s data. That’s information.
(1:08:37) That’s and I love that you spoke about that earlier about um there’s a lot going on inside of these spaces of sacred sexuality that are not kosher, you know, that are not safe. Yeah. So maybe that’s where we go now. Yeah. No, totally. Um I I I definitely want to go there cuz I want to share two things with you.
(1:08:56) I want to share a story that I heard of of somebody in a sexuality space like a a ritual and it did not go well. And then I also want to share a personal experience with you because it plays into consent responsibility. Consent like sometimes as a bit of a paradigm and ex responsibility ex instinct. Where did we end up? So you were going to tell me a story of something bad that happened. Oh yeah.
(1:09:14) So you’re going to tell me your own personal story. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. The pregnant woman. I know. Oh, you did it. You you’ve channeled my brain in today. Yeah. We’re really we’re really zeroing in. Yeah. cuz you were just saying about how some of these sexuality spaces when they exist outside of the governing bodies or they they exist in this kind of like rogue sort of cowboy land can be really dangerous. I can remember interviewing a woman when I was living in Bali like many years ago when I first wanted to start a podcast. Lol. Here we
(1:09:40) are finally doing it many years later. And she was telling me that she went to a festival or like a day retreat and there was like a touch thing that they were doing where you kind of dance through the space and you can touch lightly on the other person and weave with them and then you can move on.
(1:09:57) But if there’s a vibe, you stay instinct driven, no words. So none of the typical um the the stuff that exists within the consent paradigm around yes is yes, no is no. And they used oil. So, there was a tarp laid down and there was oil on the floor and then everybody was kind of like rolling and and moving through the oil and touching through the oil and she said it just got so out of hand and she just ended up in this these weird like position. She just ended up in positions with um other men that felt really uncomfortable and she just felt a lot of
(1:10:31) sexual energy coming her way and yeah, it was a really traumatic experience for her like it kind of catapulted her out of wanting to explore sexuality. Okay. So, there’s that. And then I guess the personal story that I wanted to share with you that kind of I guess it felt I felt like this you’re the person to share it with when we first had our conversation just because of how I felt like you held the the notion of responsibility in the space of sexuality.
(1:11:03) Uh when I was like 19, I was traveling overseas. I ended up having a sexual experience when I was over there that many years later I reflected on as being non-consentual. And for a long time, so leading up to me realizing like that wasn’t consensual, I sort of I I like had I had shame around it, but I kind of just thought it was a dumb I was like I made a mistake that was like really dumb on my part to to do that.
(1:11:34) And then when a I was talking to a girlfriend about it and she said to me that sounds like it was um assault, then I lived with that narrative of like this particular incident was something that happened to me when I was not in a space to be giving verbal consent. And so the nar my narrative was that like you know I’m a victim um or I’m a survivor of this this thing.
(1:11:57) And then I as I started to open back up into that experience and reexplore it with new layers of wisdom, I now realized that both of my stories like it was my fault, I’m silly and I’m a victim, something happened to me needed to converge because I put myself in certain situations and the outcome was something that I didn’t like, but I I was driven by an instinct at one point and But it’s always been such um I’ve always like wondered like how do I talk about this? Like how do I how do I express this story in a way that it’s
(1:12:36) going to be valuable for other people. It can sound like when I go no I I take responsibility for what happened. And I think at the time a certain narrative giving it a certain name helped me and then that name no longer became true and I had to accept I had to accept like my own um part in it.
(1:12:55) It’s just like I never wanted people to feel like I was victim blaming for certain um you know scenarios that women let’s say can get themselves into when there’s drug and alcohol involved and then a sexual energy and I feel like the way that my story that I just shared relates to the story that that woman shared the young girl I guess at the time shared with me when we were in Bali was that we had both put ourselves in a certain position and met with an outcome that was uncomfortable and that neither of us liked and then we had to live with that and do what we
(1:13:26) needed to do. So, yeah, I’m just interested to hear your perspective because this is kind of encapsulating all these themes of instinct, responsibility, consent being very blurry. Um, and I don’t feel like in my story there was much community accountability. Certainly not for for me.
(1:13:44) Like I had um friends that weren’t able to understand the experience and turned a blind eye and I also couldn’t share it. It was too complex for me to share. And I think that in the other circumstance with this woman in Bali in the sexuality event, like she was in community and she got lost in it and no one went that girl’s struggling.
(1:14:01) She doesn’t want to be covered in oil and covered in five men. Yeah. So, absolutely. I don’t know where we even start with that. Yeah. But I’m curious to know your perspective, your feedback, or if anything like came through for you. What come through? It was like even um drugs and alcohol and um that reality that we’re speaking to is one of the rights of passage. True.
(1:14:27) Of it’s a missed one really. Like we don’t Yeah. It’s not I don’t think I don’t know if it’s helpful. I don’t know if it’s you know I don’t know if I actually have had that thought the other day. I wonder if my baby will go through that because I don’t know that that is going to be if that right of passage of that going clubbing when you’re 18 section of life that most of us went through where a lot of those stories that you’re speaking to happened to most of us.
(1:14:52) I don’t know if they’re going to um exist actually for the next generation. And I wonder because we’re in this age of technology and we’re in an age of access to information, access to a lot of information, access to a lot of ideas that had no language. And if we look at the boomer generation, um which is mostly our parents, you know, we’re sort of in our 30s, right? So the most of the boomers are sort of where the parents are living.
(1:15:24) They didn’t have much um technology in the way of communication in the way that we do. So they didn’t have have my own similar stories to what you’re sharing. We I never had the the the communication skills to express that stuff. I and I never my parents idea about going to therapy is something’s broken, you know, whereas it’s not necessarily how I think about therapy. No. You know, cuz we come from a very different generation.
(1:15:49) And I sort of explained that to my my dad the other day, you know, so it’s like we we’re alchemizing things very differently. M um and I’m and I’m curious about that, you know, and how that’s going to impact my own baby and, you know, the thought of my child going into that reality of drugs and alcohol and sexuality is so terrifying because it’s so wild and so um yeah, like I think about the positions that I put myself in and I think I got lucky. Yeah. You know.
(1:16:21) Oh yeah. Yeah. That too. Yeah. because I I the way I experienced my sexuality was like it’s always felt so big for me in this life. Um, and I talk about it like, you know, learning to ride the dragon, you know, like that’s how it feels, you know, like in like those Avatar movies, you know, it’s like, whoa, okay, it’s a big powerful beast that I’m having to work with.
(1:16:42) And I feel that uh that as well, like we’re women and we’re journeying sexuality in a similar way like that way. And men working with testosterone, working with, you know, so I think my view is like that there’s a big societal right of passage that is missed. Yeah. And I’m I’m wondering what you know, like you said about my bless mother blessing that I had on the weekend, which is like no other mother blessing I’ve ever been to.
(1:17:06) And those women that are in my life came around me and crossed me through a threshold that moved me through from a lot of fear around birth into a lot of excitement and a lot of like, [ __ ] I think I’m ready because of what these women created with. That’s what our sisters are supposed to do. Yeah. Exactly.
(1:17:25) Like I have goosebumps, you know, like this is what I believe and and I think it’s actually our responsibility to keep paying attention to these rights of passage and these things because I think that what’s going to start happening and a few of my friends are like more in the 40s now and their children are getting big, you know, and I’m like cool, what are what what are the initiatory passages that we’re going to be creating for these young lads and young women coming into um yeah into the expression of their sexuality? into the expression of their power, which is really what’s happening with the alcohol and the drugs. It’s like
(1:17:57) we’ve got fuel, literal fuel to try to access more of the power of our sexuality, of our even violence, all of that. It’s all coming through and it’s trying to like the alcohol are trying to take the lid off and and that’s what I’m interested in. And the same thing with those that experiment with that your girlfriend got stuck in in Bali.
(1:18:16) It’s like I am curious about that experience that the other girl had in Bali because one one of the problems that I’m mainly seeing inside of the sexuality space is that people are not communicated with what is up what’s going to happen you know they don’t know and so one of the things that I’d create with sex lab is like I try to tell people no more than say yes to being in that space say it again so if people message me and say hey should I come like is this for me I usually say no ah so if you’re asking the [ __ ] yes. Yeah. Just like just let like like it’s usually no. And and I’m not harsh about
(1:18:51) like I’ll unpack with people like I’m not like you said no so you must not be ready you know. It’s not that you have you have doubt. Yeah. Yeah. It’s not that [ __ ] you know. It’s like I I really hate that as well you know like that um whatever that exclusivity or something or like you better be big and bold or you can’t come. That’s Yeah.
(1:19:08) The superiority of like you need to be expanded to have certain experiences. not not that you know there’s a tight rope you know it’s like you’re really holding something and one of the things that I did was create a self-exclusion form and that was a way of me helping people self-exclude themselves so I don’t want to police whether people should and shouldn’t be in that space um I think what I would like is to educate people about the kind of space it is in the best way that I know how to the best of my abilities and I will continue to grow and learn how to do that and be continually held by community in
(1:19:43) any ways that I need reflection to find the way through that. My general sense is is that if you give people enough of the data of what they’re stepping into, they will know whether it’s for them. And I always give refunds if anyone changes their mind because I I think that I don’t want anyone coming because they’ve paid, you know, like or something like that. You know what I mean? Like that’s a real thing for me. Yeah. at this stage in my journey.
(1:20:08) That’s a huge huge trap, too, with like just when money and money and sexuality, there’s a relationship there. Survival is involved, you know. Yeah. Um and value and all that kind of stuff. So, I don’t know. I think I answered something there, but I don’t know. Yeah. I mean, I love how you say what I’m interested in or I’m curious about because that’s really like those are the best answers cuz these are like big questions that we’re putting out there of like what is, you know, like what what is anything?
(1:20:36) And all you can do is be like, well, this is my curiosity with it. This is what I’m interested in with it. I don’t think that there’s a way to answer any of these questions. And that’s the thing that academia and science maybe gets wrong is that they try to answer questions that are unanswerable because we’re we’re we’re conditioned to think we’re conditioned to believe that uncertainty isn’t valuable. Mhm. Yeah. Because it’s scary.
(1:21:03) And I would love for women that have had that experience of having their boundaries crossed, feeling they’ve been assaulted, like something that needs justice. Mhm. that needs more um we need to know what the pathways are. Yeah. Yeah. I we need like okay this has happened now here are the options and people need to be really really clearly educated on what the options are inside of that experience and be given like I mean I’ve been on the streets of London as an activist and a feminist you know when I was like 16 talking about you know rape is one of the only crimes where the
(1:21:39) victim becomes the accused. I had a big sign posted there when I was like 16, you know, marching on the streets of London because I was so angry about this experience that women were going through where they were asked how short their skirt was on that night. GH, you know, things like this that are happening in the world. Yeah.
(1:21:59) Well, I guess that was a big thing with coming coming to grips with my experience when I was 19 is that I felt like calling like using certain words to describe my experience diluted the experience of other women who have who have been really powerless in their situations like have had all their sovereignty ripped away from them. When in my situation, the time that I’m referencing, like I got drunk. I took the drugs.
(1:22:29) I played into the I played into the attraction like, you know, and then I got an outcome that changed my life forever. Yeah. And it’s just there’s been these stages of coming to terms with that. And I feel like I see a lot of blame and shame um thrown around in those areas uh where where circumstances have unfolded that are similar to mine.
(1:22:57) And of course there’s like an element of me projecting as well when I view when I look at these these situations. But I do think that there is so much nuance and then when drugs and alcohol are involved there’s even more nuance. Yeah. And it’s just like I want there to be more voices speaking to that nuance in ways like you just have with like what I’m interested in or I’m curious about.
(1:23:23) So that yeah like we we are looking at at options for how to transform the um the discomfort how to support the person that didn’t feel supported in the situation like and you know I didn’t feel supported in my situation because I didn’t feel supported by the friends that were around me. I didn’t feel supported by the guy because he was like, you know, just as acting from acting from his trauma as much as I was or whatever, acting from his like patterns, stories, whatever language you want to want to use. But I also didn’t feel supported by my higher self because I had blast myself out of my body.
(1:23:59) And so, you know, Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. And look uh back to what you were saying before about your baby and like hopefully my children they will be in a different mu like the backdrop and the context will be completely different because of technology and education and hopefully like more people like you becoming visible and being like uh it’s not so binary. Yeah.
(1:24:29) Yeah, I like what you’re saying and I also wonder about how much I feel like justice is one thing that needs to be addressed when these things happen like okay what is true what feels like what justice needs to happen and then there’s also the meaning making yeah yeah yeah what meaning making do you want to make and it sounds like you went through many iterations and almost and also no one gave you those meanings you created those meanings you know what I mean and I want and I often have that thought of like I have a lot of thoughts of how these things come about and why
(1:24:52) they come about you spoke about earlier like we mirror our reality You know, even the piece around like I wanted to blast myself out of my body. Why do we want to blast ourselves out of our body? So many think layers there. And there’s like a lot of those early teachers that were pioneers inside of the sexuality space.
(1:25:10) They were coming out with very very radical things around self- responsibility and around what we how we need to be with our sexuality and how we can be um and what we can look at. And I’ve always wondered how much I would bring that to my own child. the the idea of self- responsibility in a radical way and I only can answer for my own child. You know what I mean? Because I think I would never bring it’s a very different anyone who’s a client I never bring any meaning. I’m always just in the curiosity.
(1:25:41) But when you’ve got your own child, I think there’s some level of responsibility that we owe them to the meaning making that we create. Yeah. So again, I would just be giving a lot of options of how they can create meaning and see if that that is something that resonates with because even if they let’s say nightclubing and uh drinking and drugs is over for the next generation, they don’t have to go through that when they’re 18. Yeah.
(1:26:06) Drinking maybe. Yeah. Probably not drugs, but like who knows? Drinking. Even if it let’s say if it’s ne them they I wonder whether the souls will still call in the same initiations through a whole different stream through AI through whatever else is going to come and how much of that’s us we can only protect our children and the people that we love so much because the soul has something that it came here to do and sometimes when I’m reflecting on my own bad behaviors back in those days I’m like I’ve needed something to create what I created.
(1:26:37) And I and now and I’m still living. My soul has been carved and etched out of these experiences. Did I did I come in with this imprint and then I attracted it? Did I come in and have the experiences and then I this part of my soul emerged? I’ll never know the answers to that. That’s the mystery of it all.
(1:26:55) That’s the uncertainty. I’m always wondering that about my own life of like I told you at the beginning of the pod. Um my birth was quite traumatic. Um as in my own individual birth. Mhm. It became Do you want me to say this? I don’t want No, nothing’s going to rattle you. Yeah. Okay.
(1:27:19) It became an emergency situation basically and was it’s interesting like you know my mom had an epidural. It didn’t work. There was miscommunication between the nurses and the aniththetists. um you know, she was put under a general anesthetic. Like, so I was born under this like cocktail of drugs, least concerning of which were the the [ __ ] chemicals pumping through my mom’s body when she was in stress, like on top of all the other stuff.
(1:27:44) And so I this is a thought that I had recently of like no wonder I’ve had a bit of a proclivity to altered states in this lifetime because I was you know born in this really like chaotic um altered way and so then I’ve considered the consideration on top of that is just like wow has that encoded like you know encoded me that birth story has that fully encoded me to have certain there be a particular dynamic between my mom and I and for me to you know be a certain kind of Okay.
(1:28:15) And then back to your theory about or your question rather about well would have I just ended up this way anyway regardless of the birth that I that I had. And it’s actually like it’s actually so much nicer to just be in the mystery of I don’t know because then it makes me think of when I give birth eventually hopefully like whatever happens is meant to happen. Totally.
(1:28:42) And that soul is gonna be fine or not fine either way because that’s always that was always meant to be their journey. Yeah. And was it your mom that created that birth that was challenging and traumatic for you or was it your soul that created that for your mom? I know who had to learn lesson. Yeah.
(1:28:58) I mean cuz like there there’s a lot of I mean what I’m learning at the moment is like I can do all the embodiment work that I want and I can prepare for this birth all I want but I have to surrender to how this soul wants to be born. you know, and there’s not a lot you can do about that. Yeah. Yeah.
(1:29:15) Yeah. I mean, do you do you think you can kind of I mean, without controlling it, is there a way that you can kind of like buff the edges to create a container that for whatever so that whatever happens can be held. Yeah. It’s like get really okay with the unknown and the mystery. And then there’s also the physical things, you know, and the mental.
(1:29:33) It’s like it’s all a game, right? It’s like, yeah, I’m doing all the paranal stretching. I’m doing all the deep attunement body work. I’m doing all the mindset. I’m taking care of my relationships. I’m advocating for myself. I’m learning a lot about the freebirth society of the world. And I’m also learning about the hospital society of the world.
(1:29:52) And I’m looking at where risk sits on a spectrum and how much risk I’m willing to be to bring myself close to. And you know, and also recognizing that every birth is a ritual of birth and death. It’s like you are coming you to to give birth, you have to come close to looking at death big time. Yeah. And so there’s a lot there. There’s there is a lot there. And I think that it’s um Yeah.
(1:30:19) I think that it’s a um a beautiful opportunity to to weave to weave those worlds. Like the birth is a beautiful opportunity to confront the reality, not just the potentiality, but the reality of death. Whether that’s the energetic, whether that’s a death of a version of you or like, you know, the potentiality of that that being the outcome of the birth, like for either me or a baby, you know, there’s many, many, many things that can happen. Yeah.
(1:30:51) This feels like a natural end to agree what has been an incredible conversation. Yeah, thank you so much. Yeah, thanks for having me on. Great. Yeah, I so appreciate this and um I really Yeah, I hope I hope we get to do this again like be nice at some point in the in the future. Yeah, me too. Thank you so much. Thank you.
